NEW Question of the Week
This is a hard one - how would you respond to this person?
1. Give your thoughts and then 2. write as though you were replying to the dog owner.

"I have an aggressive dog and I need help"

I got a dog a little over a year ago from some friends. A lady had came into our work place with a pup and said she was o her way to take him to the pound. They knew I wanted a dog and got him for me. They did not get any background on him other than he was a choc-lab. Once he grew a little more you could see that there was definitely mixture of pit bull in there as well.

He was a good dog until one day out of nowhere, I was at my fathers house and the neighbor had came over. He was a 13 year old boy. Right off my dog had an issue with him being there. Then the boy started to yell and my dog bit him on the arm. It required 3 stitches and my dog was sent to the pound for quarantine. He is now labeled a vicious dog. After that happened I was scared to take him anywhere and so he was unsocialized for the next 8 or so months.

Since then he has become very aggressive with anyone that tries to come near him, with the exception of 9 people. Other than those 9 people, he tries to bite anyone that comes close to him. my brothers girlfriend said she wanted to try to train him and she came over. I told her not to go near him but she did and he ended up nipping her arm as well. I do not know what to do. He is not fixed yet because of money issues and when I tried to take him in to get it done the vet that I had taken him to was to scared to go near him. I did have a mussel on him but he is very intimidating. I have tried to research different ways of training and counseling for him, shock collars, the whole bit. I am at a lost. I am afraid to try to pay a trainer to come in, because I don't want him to bite anyone else. I also am not sure if even with training I could trust him ever again. With the people that he is ok with, he is very gentile and sweet. You can walk right up to him and pull food, toys, anything right out of his mouth and he will not bite or bark or snarl. He obeys the sit,laydown,shake,ect... but he is just way too aggressive and mean.

I have made an appointment to put him down on July 2nd. I do not want to do this if it is possible he could change. I have a little niece and nephew that cant ever come over to my house, I also cant have any people over to bbq or anything without chaining the dog to the back fence. Please help me in making a decision on weather I even have a choice to keep my dog alive. I am afraid he will do something and hurt someone very badly.

First in - Ann-Luise!

Gosh, this is a HARD one. I really hope I don’t come across as cold and heartless and lose my job with DITR.

1. Give your thoughts and then
My first thought is WOW – how scary. One of my worst fears is that one of my dogs will bite someone un-provoked. And I’ve always sworn, that I would NEVER own a vicious dog. This is easier said than done, but I believe that you assume this responsibility when owning a dog. Sue Sternberg says that some dogs are just “bad”. They will NEVER get better. Is it worth the constant stress and worry?

2. write as though you were replying to the dog owner.
Dear “owner”, As hard as it might be, I think you need to put this dog to sleep as soon as possible. If this dog permanently maimed or God forbid, killed somebody, you will never forgive yourself. Also, you need to “free” this dog. He is not happy here.

Carol, this isn’t very comprehensive and I’m not fully comfortable with my response. Maybe this can be something we can share thoughts on after a few people have answered. THANKS! Ann-Luise

And FABULOUS ANSWER - DIANE!!

Hi Carol, I'm assuming you aren't passing our answers on to this lady, right? I wouldn't actually want to offer comments to anyone in this position that I'd never met, or met the dog as well. There has to be a relationship of some sort, even if brief, to talk to someone about this sort of thing. I'm just reacting to the situation as stated, and writing as if I had met her. Here's my best shot.

My heart goes out to you. You are a kind person who took in a dog with the best of intentions. You have done your best to have a good life with him, and some difficult circumstances have brought you to this point. The fact that you told the story factually as you did says a lot for your integrity and honest concern to do what is best.

The more I learn about dogs, the more it amazes me that so many dogs love humans enough to adapt to our living style and share a life with us. We humans are odd creatures to a dog's way of thinking! Some dogs transition into the human family life like it's no problem. Others have some issues along the way. Some are just unable to be comfortable in the situations they have to deal with, and no matter how hard we try, we can't make it better for them. They are truly bonded with their immediate family and a few others they trust, but are unable to interact with everyone in a calm and safe way. A dog like that spends a lot of time being anxious, uncertain, and defensive. Perhaps the only way he can express this is with his teeth. A dog of this sort has a limited life, and his owner is miserable, hoping things can be better.

Your honest comments about the vet who was afraid of him, and the times he's made contact with his teeth tell me you have thought this through very well, and in reading your story I think you have answered your own question. You would feel horrible if he did worse damage to someone than what has already occured.

You have loved well, and you will always have special memories of this dog who is so sweet with you. Take pictures of him, frame them, and treasure them. And when the time is here, release him to be free of his anxiety, and you from yours as well. Remember him with a smile, knowing that he experienced love from you that he may not have recieved from another home. Know you let him go with love, and let yourself grieve as you need to.

Perhaps when the time is right you will have a new doggie friend, and you will learn more from him, and love well again. Thank you for sharing your story and being honest. You have done your very best.

AND A GREAT ONE FROM KIM!!

Yeah, this is hard one. Tho I must say that my initial response is, keep the appointment.

Okay you want our general thoughts first and then how we would respond to the owner.

General thoughts:
dog with unknown history...why was he being taken to the shelter? Did he bite someone in his current home? How old was this pup? How long after getting the dog did he bite the 13 year old? What was his socialization prior to the bite? Where was he in the 8 months that he was "unsocialized" (locked in a room in a house? fence running in the yard?)? He tries to bite everyone he sees..no bite inhibition? How much practice has he had at biting people? Genetically screwed up dog?? He is not in an envrionment that is set up to keep him or others safe---brother's girlfriend tried to train after owner said no....other people don't listen to the owner, owner is not forceful enough with others-this is a vicious dog, one more reported bite and he's gone.

Vet staff afraid/won't work with the dog...says a lot and not enough.

Money issues..if can't afford the neuter, how can they pay for the intensive work that will be required just to see if there is hope? Dog is being chained to the back fence when people over...practicing barrier frustration, increasing adrenaline, heaven help anyone if that chain breaks!

Owner is afraid of the dog, can't trust the dog, can't have friends or family over, can't afford medical care, can't have a life....why do they want to keep the dog?

Always has a choice, however, in the interest (from the history here) of public safety, personal liability, and the quality of the dog's life.....euthanasia.

My response to the owner:
Dear Doggie Owner,

First I would like to commend you on researching possibilities for dealing with your current situation. I understand that you are on a time crunch and looking for any and all possible outcomes to your situation. Dogs with aggression issues are a challenge to put it very mildly.

In regards to your particular dog, I do have a couple questions for you. How old was the dog when you obtained him? How old is he now? How old was he when he bit the 13 year old boy? Had he nipped/snapped/growled at anyone prior to that but simply did not make contact? How was he in general towards people before that first bite (poeple who came over, people out and about on your daily walks, at the park, at the vets)? I ask these questions to try to fill out the picture a little more.

Can your dog be worked with? That is a very good question. I understand your reservations about having a trainer come over to the house. So we can try by going on your description alone. What we have is a dog with unknown puppy history. Why was he being taken to the shelter? Had he already bitten someone or did he act agressivly towards people in that household? Many people will surrender dogs for these behaviors and may not say why they are surrendering in hopes that the pup with find a new home. Unfortunately, they are setting up the new home for the same or worse problems. When a dog is adopted there is a "honeymoon" period. On average it is about 4 months, where things seem to go great. Once the honeymoon is over the dogs true colors (good or bad) begin to emerge. That is why I ask how old the dog was when you got him and how long after did he bite the child.

The aggression can stem from several things including poor early socialization, traumatic experiences at critical developmental periods, and genetics (his hard wiring is simply screwed up). To begin to work on it we need to discover his triggers and yes, have a trainer working with you to give guidence as to how to manage every moment of this dog's life. Living with and working with an aggressive dog is very tedious, work intensive, and expensive. The fact that the dog seems to show no bite inhibition (he is not afraid to bite anyone and everyone), he has had months to practice this behavior, he is not neutered, all decrease the possibility of any amount of success we may have.

Even working with and implimenting training and lifestyle protocols to deal with agression, there is no guarantee that the dog could ever be trusted with another human being. So this leads us to our other option, euthanasia.

When we make the decision for euthanasia, it is generally a quality of life issue. Quite frequently we only think about that in regards to medical/physical conditions, but mental conditions apply as well. What is this dog's quality of life? He seems to be in a state of high anxiety most of the time. Also, you have become a prisoner of your own home, and this dog is the warden saying who can come in and who can't. That is no quality of life for you. Another thing to think about is you have a dog who is already listed with the county/city as a vicious dog. One more bite and he will be put down, no questions asked. Dogs who bite like this, their bites get worse with time. He may have inflicted a bite that only required 3 sutures at first, but his next serious bit could break a person's arm or worse.

Based on the history you have provided I would say that your decision for euthanasia is a wise one. As trainers, we do not make recommendations for euthanasia lightly. But for your safety, public safety, and the mental status of the dog, I think this is a very fair decision.

----------------------------------------------------

Okay, there you go. I would love to see this person start a savings account for pet expences, pick the dog, and come to classes in the future when the dog is a pup.

AND SUPERBLY ANSWERED, CATHY!!

* Number 1 = My Thoughts
* Number 2 = Actual Letter to the Owner

#1 First some thoughts I have on this scenario.....

You have asked us to write as though we were replying to the owner. Since I wouldn't write such a letter unless I had gone to see the owner and the dog in person, I have to write as though that were the case. There are also some important omissions in some of the information we are given -- I would want to know more about the 13 year old kid and exactly what transpired there, "out of nowhere." Also, the timelines we are given are a little unclear. I get the idea that he is maybe about a year and a half old. How old was he when she got him, how old is he now how old was he when he bit the first time, the second? Although the answers to these questions may or may not make a difference in what recommendations I would make, I think that if we are going to dole out advice, it is only fair to both us and the clients that we serve to get the most information with regard to the situation that we can. Were I to see this woman and her dog, most likely I would give her a good talk about leadership, NILIF, behavior modification and management, and speak with her about options. Here goes...

#2 Dear Lady,

Thank you for allowing me to come to your home to finally meet you and Fido. I can say with no uncertainty that you truly do have a problem that must be dealt with post haste. Just having contacted me, you've already started to take responsible action, which is admirable.

Behaviors that dogs practice over and over, not only get stronger over time, but also become "the only way to do it" in the dog's mind. We don't know exactly what transpired with the 13 year old boy to make Fido bite him, but whatever it was that was threatening or scary, the bite Fido gave him "worked". It propelled the boy away. In Fido's mind, some people coming toward him present some sort of a threat, he growls, snarls, lunges, and the bad people go away. In the instance of your brother's girlfriend, it took actual contact (a nip in the arm) to propel her away, again reinforcing that the aggression "works".

When I came to your home, we discussed Pack Leadership at length. You realize, even at a low level of behavior modification and management, how difficult it can be to put it to diligent use in your everyday life at home with the dog. Dogs communicate almost exclusively through body language, and most of that body language is very subtle. If you are not paying attention (and most of us don't), or do not know what the subtle body language signs are (and most of us don't), you will miss what the dog is saying (and most of us DO miss it). Sometimes tiny movements of their eyes, ears, stance, or a teeny curl of their lip can tell us all we need to know in how to proceed interacting with a particular dog. It would be impossible for almost anyone to watch their dogs body language all of the time, and you would need to keep your eyes on him every second someone else was around.

You are quite fortunate that Fido hasn't hurt anyone worse than the 3 stitches the 13 year old boy needed. Please know that something worse will indeed occur if you do not take immediate action now. In any household total management can be next to impossible to accomplish. You can't even safely have company over to your home without putting Fido totally out of access --- chaining him up outside, putting him in a secure room. You've stated this is something you do not want to live with.

Your biggest challenge will be this: You can implement an aggressive behavior modification and management plan for Fido. Over the course of many diligent months of work on you and your family's part, Fido's behavior toward other people could improve, but you can never never trust it enough to allow him to be with children, guests, out in public or anywhere you didn't have complete control over him. Even if you found a veterinarian that will neuter him, it may help a little, but it certainly won't change who he is.

After all those months of work -- it could be in the fall having a gathering with some of your family with your little niece and nephew in your own backyard --- you let your guard down just for an instant and Fido will take advantage. He may do something like lunging, snapping, biting someone and your life would be forever changed ---Emotionally and possibly financially.

My job is to listen to you tell me your situation, observe Fido's behavior, and give you options and recommendations:

1. Do nothing. By contacting me, this option is already out.
2. Find him a new home, with full disclosure in writing to avoid a law suit should he hurt someone in his new home -- Can you really pass this risk and responsibility on to someone else?
3. Implement a plan of behavior modification and management.
4. Euthanize him humanely. I know it's not very pretty, especially knowing that you have become so attached to him. Whatever you decide to do, it's not going to be easy. Each one of the options above will be emotionally draining. I think the love you have for him and your family is the best guide for which path to take. I will continue to help you anyway I can with whatever you decide.

AND NANCY - FABULOUS JOB!!

I almost didn't reply. Then, as with so many other things in life, I saw the light! It's obvious where things really went wrong here... EVERYONE knows not to use a mussel on a dog! I highly recommend a clam or an oyster for dogs that are mildly aggressive. A geoduck is the only thing to use on an extremely aggressive dog!

Seriously, I looked at this question the other day and closed it. I saw the "any other takers" notice and the comments and am anxious to read what others have written. Typical me, I have no "training ideas" or theories... only some initial thoughts. We all have to start somewhere, right?

This whole issue isn't really about the dog, it's about the owner.

What kind of life does the person want to have as a 'family unit' with this dog? How hard is the person willing to work?

Unfortunately, the dog already has so many strikes against it. If the owner's desire is to have a trustworthy, happy-go-lucky, comfortable, interactive, loving, secure family pet... that goal is unrealistic. If that's what the owner wants, it'd be advisable to find a different dog.

If the owner is willing to recognize the dog's limitations and can be satisfied with the relationship and lifestyle that will go with having this dog, then the owner can proceed with the next step... which isn't dog training, but self-discipline. The owner has shown a history of avoidance and non-compliance (unsocialized, untrained, unneutered... at least the dog, dunno about the owner). Should the owner choose to keep the dog, the owner must first modify his/her own behaviors.

This dog will require intensive time and money investments. Neutering. Training, training, training and more training. Modification of living quarters/restraint techniques (chained to the back fence when company is present?!?!). If the owner is unable or unwilling to follow-through with these commitments, it would be advisable for the owner to surrender the dog.

Finally, should the owner choose the lifestyle this relationship would define, truly commit the time, energy, and money it would take to make it successful, the owner must never forget that this dog is a loaded gun with a hair trigger! One slip and the owner's worst fears could come true. That's a lot of stress and responsibility which will be ongoing, 24/7, for the duration of the dog's life. A good homeowner's policy is highly recommended.

Oops! I didn't follow the directions.... I didn't respond as though I was speaking to the dog owner. I could re-write, but not now. I guess pretty much "the owner" or "the person" could be replaced with "you" in my dissertation! I might soften up some of the wording, although the flavor and message would remain the same.

She answered from work - so we are not holding her to re-writing!

There are so many factors here, which everyone stated so well: over a year old with lack of socialization through the critical period of adolescence, un-neutered (because of money - and long term in-depth behavior modification is going to cost her money), the vet turned her away from his office - even muzzled. [Geoduck - ah, Nancy *LOL*] Repeated occurences. Nancy said it best about the owner's "history of avoidance and non-compliance." She obviously wants to have a "normal life" but can't because of the dog.

We all agreed. Keep the appointment.

It crossed my mind as I read her email that she wasn't so much writing for help, but needed permission to make the hard choice ... I wish my answer was as compassionate as Diane's. If I ever need to hear or need help giving bad news, I hope it's from her!

And no, as Diane and Cathy said, ideally we wouldn't make this judgement call without talking to the owner in person. Apparently, from what I heard back from this woman, she is not in Spokane and doesn't have the money to spend for in-depth counseling that this type of behavior modification would entail ... so ...

My response:

I'm so sorry to hear that you're in this very difficult position of having to make such a tough decision for yourself and your dog. What you wanted was a dog to be your best friend, to enrich your life, and instead it's complicated things and endangered your friends and family. This isn't what you signed up for.

Unfortunately not all relationships are healthy ones. Much like a woman in an abusive relationship, you are being held hostage by a fellow who limits your activities and who you can invite to your own home. It affects the vacations you can take and your relationship with your family. It puts people you care about at risk. And like human relationships, even the best therapy and counseling sometimes can't change some of the personalities we choose to live with. In these cases, divorce is the only healthy option.

The other issue is that of personal liability, home owners insurance, and the possibility of losing your house if he hurts someone and you get sued, not to mention the guilt you will feel if he seriously injures someone. All this is coupled with the unfortunate stir the news media makes whenever a dog of his breed mix makes a mistake that harms a human.

Of course I haven't met your dog so I can't give you a definitive (and in this case, life or death) answer, but given the information you've provided, it doesn't sound likely that you can ever make this dog friendly to strangers and even with extensive behavior modification he will never be 100% safe. He must live a very stressful life to be so defensive every time he is met with any change. I suspect he isn't much happier than you are.

If you choose to work with him, your goal will be to have impeccable leadership and bomb-proof absolute obedience so he never makes his own decisions and always looks to you for direction in all situations regardless of the behavior of the visitor. This level of training is difficult for the most experienced trainer to achieve and the safety of your visitors is at stake if your training fails.

Sending him to someone else for training won't work. This is about your relationship with the dog - he must look to you for direction, not another trainer. It won't be accomplished by using intimidation, shock collars or physical methods - any trainer who recommends shock collars, "alpha rolls or scruff shakes" or "dominating your dog" should be avoided. It may also be difficult to find a trainer willing to take the risk of working with a dog who is serious about defending his territory, as they could also be called into a law suit if he bites someone during or following their work with you.

You face a very difficult decision, especially since he is apparently such a great dog in spite of his aggression to those outside his small circle of "friends." Unfortunately sometimes the best decision is often the most difficult to make.

If you decide to explore behavior modification/training options further, I do have copies of Brenda Aloff's excellent book "Aggression in Dogs" for sale, which is a benefit for our local humane society, SpokAnimal. It is a $50 book, but worth the price. I may also be able to refer you to a trainer in your area to meet you and your dog in person.

Our thoughts are with you. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know.
- Carol Byrnes

FOLLOW-UP COMMENTS:

FROM CATHY:

I tend to think, Carol, after reading everybody's answer to qow, that you must be feeling really good about our responses. The things that struck me so were:

a) Our level of compassion each of our responses expresses
b) The fact that we all came to the same conclusion
c) Addressing the points that we needed or would like to have had additional information, and
d) We probably wouldn't write such a letter unless we had actually seen the dog.

Although each of our wording was different, the consistency of our advice with each other suggests to me that not only do you have a pretty knowledgeable staff, but also the level of knowledge or education that we have acquired to arrive at our conclusions is strong -- we don't just tell her to euth the dog without explanations and options, or "just because it's a nasty dog." I'd like to see ANYBODY from the clubs do that! I think that would make for some pretty interesting reading! Cathy

I AGREE! One of my primary reasons for posting Q of the Week is as a learning and sharing tool - but it sure does give a wonderful view of the scope of knowledge and sincere compassion our Ruffians share. We are the BEST!! Thank you guys - it wouldn't be the best training school in town without ALL of you! - Carol

AND FROM KIM:

I loved Cathy's follow up comments!

I always assume that you are not going to use our stuff in your response since you write yours first. For me, it is actually helpful to not have the "full picture." It gets me thinking about what questions I should ask and about the possibilities. I know I need to take better histories, and this helps me to practice that.

I know not everyone gets a chance to answer or may feel intimidated by the question, but I think the Q of the Weeks are cool things and I love reading what everyone else who answers has to say. I use them ( the questions and everyone elses answers) as huge learning tools!!!! I cant tell you how many times I have had questions at work that mirror what the current QoW happens to be!

Keep the questions coming!! Kim

You got it! I will probably be posting a new one in the next couple days. *S* BTW it thrills me to read ALL of your responses. Brainstorming and thinking "outloud" through your keyboard is a great way to clarify what you know and broaden how you apply that knowledge and experience. My goal is for all our Ruffians to be able to confidently answer questions posed by students, or just as confidently say "I'm not sure I know the answer, but let me ask (or refer you to) someone who does." Keep those answers (or guesses!) coming!! -CB