Last updated April 3, 2003

Q of the week:
"Spastic Friends not helping Leaping Looney Labrador"

Hello Carol and Dana, You may not remember us we were in two classes (Dec. 2001/Mar. 2002). We had Max the yellow lab (I've attached a picture to help you put a name to a muzzle). Anyway, we loved your classes and have recommended you everyone we've run across. Also, you'll be happy to know that Max is doing well, is an indispensible part of our family, and has adjusted very nicely to our first baby in December. He was every bit the kind hearted, gentle guy we expected him to be.

So, you may be curious about why I'm contacting you. Well, as it turns out, we may not have been as dilligent as we should have been with regard to helping Max learn to greet arriving guests calmly. To add to the issue, our most frequent visitors have completely failed to grasp the concept of being calm and ignoring Max until he behaves as he should. Also, Max is pretty inconsistent about coming when we call for him. Which bugs me because I'd love to be able to take him to the park and let him off his leash to fetch tennis balls. However, currently, I have a 100' rope that I keep him tied to just in case.

With regard to Max's manners when greeting people, you suggested an exercise in class where we have people come over and come in the door, one by one, and reward Max or not based on whether he sits to greet them. We have tried this but, as I mentioned earlier, our friends are (if you can believe this) somewhat more spastic than a 2 year old lab - seriously, you've never seen so much flailing and squealing. So it's never really worked.

I was hoping you could suggest some exercises that Nicole and I could do ourselves to help Max greet guests more calmly and come more consistantly when called. Other than those two issues, Max is a very close second to our new baby when it comes to being our little (well, 85 bouncy pounds, little) pride and joy. So much so that we're strongly considering adopting another lab in May or thereabouts. Anyway, any feedback you can provide would be much appreciated.

YOUR ANSWER!

First out of the chute! LISAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Door greeting....They need to desensitize arrivals. Unfortunately their flailing and squealing friends have significantly reinforced the behavior--what self-respecting lab isn't turned on by this kind of human behavior? How about the dog never gets greeted at the door? If people always ignore him at the door there will be no reason to get excited. Have a leash near the door at all times. When somebody arrives put the leash on and stand on it while they come in. Instruct the visitors to ignore him completely. One of the owners can stand between the dog and the visitor if necessary. Prior to this teach him "go to bed and stay" and leave the bed out of traffic near something they can tie a leash around. Kind of like a timeout place, only it is conditioned to be a "quiet place" complete with his favorite chew toys. After people have arrived have him "go to bed" use the leash to keep him there if necessary. Ten to twenty minutes after people have arrived release him, keep the leash on and step on it while people say hi.

Recall...Start over and practice everywhere all the time for a few seconds at a time...."Max Come!" Feed chicken liver and let him go to play some more. In the house, in the yard, in fenced outdoor areas. The key is to reward and let him go play some more. They could also teach him "sit at a distance in the middle of distractions" so that if he gets to thinking about chasing something the owners can stop him with a "Max Sit!" -- Since I am short on time this morning, I'll let you fill in the step by step training sequence. I don't know these people and this might be beyond their skill level without help????? Lisa

AND CLOSE BEHIND - KIM IMEELLLLLL
I love Brian Kilcommon's/Sarah Wilson's line "for young labs, life is a contact sport". How true!! The owners admit they have not been diligent with the training. A young lab is gonna need that, especially for greeting. It sounds like the friends are "dog lovers", which can be a good thing and can be a bad thing. I would imagine that when Max acts wild and crazy, these are the people that say, "Oh, don't get on his case. I don't mind if he jumps up on me. I just love dogs!" The problem is the friends may not mind but the owners obviously do, hence their email to you. It really does not seem a question of Max's manners, but he manners of the houseguests. This goes beyond simply training the dog and to the fact that the friends disrespect the owners and disregard their wishes. This is their house and their dog and the rules are theirs to make. Friends and family alike have to adhere to them. If these dog lovers will not follow them I think there may be two options, 1) they cant come over or 2) the dog is put in another room or outside while they visit. Luckily a lab is fairly forgiving. If the people can follow the rules, they will be rewarded with time with the dog. In the mean time, find people who will not be so spastic and will actually help train the dog and follow the advice given previously.

As far a come when called. Work all the recall exercises learned in classes. Start in your own back yard on leash working up to off lead. When nailing them perfectly, then go to a friend's (not a spastic friend) house and work in their back yard on lead and work up to off lead in a different exciting yard. Keep uping the ante until you can get a solid recall everywhere.

I do worry about taking dogs off lead in the city parks tho for a few reasons. 1) The unknown distraction that may just be strong enough to pull the dog away from the owner 2) traffic and 3) the general public. A lot of people may see a wild, happy lab as a dog charging to attack them.

Also, since they enjoyed it before, why not come back to classes. Do Fundamentals, Finishing School, and Stay on Target to help with greeting and recalls with distractions, and off lead work. A great way to spend the spring and summer!! Have one of their spastic friends attend each week as a visitor to see the work in progress.

Oh, really big kudos on the relationship between owners, dog and baby!!! I LOVE it when dogs remain a part of the family after babies are born!! Way too cool!!!

AND HOT ON KIM'S HEELS - CATHYYYYYYYY!
If it weren't for those Loony Leaping Labs, we might just find ourselves out of a job at ditr!! But seriously, I think this problem can be dealt with in a number of ways, with a high level of success -- although diligence is certainly part of the equation. It sounds like you are getting zero compliance with the visitors that come to your house. If that is truly the case, then I would advise you to hire some, more like a lot, of additional visitors to come to the house that will greet Max in a proper fashion. See if you can get 2 or 3 neighborhood kids to come and ring your doorbell every 45 seconds, minute, 5 minutes, whatever it takes to get some serious practice in at greeting behavior at the door. Give 'em 5 bucks for an hour a couple of afternoons on the weekend. I would flood him with these kinds of "visitors" so that when the real visitors come, Max's new behavior at the door is to sit calmly and wait for his turn to be greeted. It's hard to say just how long it will take to get to this point, as he has had quite a lot of practice and reinforcement being a loony lab at the door. Diligence, patience and consistency are the real key here, keeping in mind that he will get it, but it is up to you to help him want to get it.

Of course there is the ol' lab on the leash -- jumpy jumpy-- and booted out the door with the door closed behind him on a foot and a half of leash for 5 seconds. This is a good method, but I would only recommend it to people after actually showing them exactly how to do it.

Coming when called can be easily achieved, but takes the same level of consistent commitment when training (and playing) as does the no jumping exercise. If you can't get Max to come to you when he is 5 feet away, there is no way in the world he is going to come a running when he is 50 feet away -- or 100. Coming to you has got to be the most fabulous thing in the world in his eyes. That means it can no longer mean "the end of fun". No more calling him to come in and take a bath, or come here to go to the vet, etc. For that stuff, you must go get him. It is up to you to change his perception of what come means to him. If that means that you need to use a different word for come, then so be it. His name must be something that he absolutely loves to hear. No more yelling his name to reprimand him or using his name as a command to 'stop' something. I would work the recall in small steps. First by walking along with him and then going backwards, saying his name (happily) and the word come. Work a few feet first and gradually add distance. At this point, it really helps to have another person to assist. Someone to hold the dog as the distance graduates. In so far as being in the park with the ball, I would keep him on that 100 foot line for awhile. While it may seem like a ball and chain to you, it is a safety net for him. Rather than thinking of it as restricting his freedom, try viewing it as not giving him more freedom than he is able to handle responsibly at this point. And of course, that can change and with practice, most probably will.

WAY TA GO, GUYS! GOOD JOB!

Darn it anyway, I can't find my original response, but it basically involved teaching Max to go to an assigned rug when the doorbell rings and setting up a training session with his spastic friends, instructing them that they have to wait for Max to sit before they could approach and feed him and teach them how to execute a turn-away. Max would be tethered if necessary at first. We also talked about "taking his recalls on the road" by using tennis courts and long lines in the park.

Follow-up email from Max's folks:

Thanks for the speedy response. I really appreciate the feedback. We will round up a few people and give them specific instructions on how to behave. In fact, I'm thinking we may use a variant of clicker training where we'll say "Good Job! The beer is in the cooler." if they enter the house correctly and respond to Max appropriately. If they don't we'll give the No Treat signal, "Well, Bob, looks like you're back in line to ring the door bell and come in again."

I also really liked the suggestion about the tennis court. There is one in Mission Park, right by where we live. I am glad to hear that the rope isn't warping him. It's just that last time we were at Manito park, there was a guy playing fetch with his black lab right by the parking lot. That dog was really something, he got his tennis ball, he brought it right back, he sat and looked at his man, and when the man threw the ball, the dog only went after it after getting the release signal. I tried to have Max sit and watch for a minute but he was instantly sidetracked having noticed that his butt also has a LEFT SIDE, WOOO WOO, THE UNMITIGATED JOY!! I'm not complaining, though. Max's lunkheaded joie de vivre is one of his most endearing traits.

Also, I mentioned your finishing class suggestion to Nicole. We're thinking we're going to sign up sometime this spring or summer. Max really had a pretty good time in the other classes - and so did we for that matter. Anyway, thanks again for the suggestion about tying Max to something. That may be the missing piece. I'll let you know how we progress.

And my reply:

>We will round up a few people and give them specific instructions on how to
>behave. In fact, I'm thinking we may use a variant of clicker training where
>we'll say "Good Job! The beer is in the cooler." if they enter the house
>correctly and respond to Max appropriately. If they don't we'll give the No
>Treat signal, "Well, Bob, looks like you're back in line to ring the door
>bell and come in again."

BRILLIANT! *LOL* I love it. You really have a total grasp of how this training works.

>I also really liked the suggestion about the tennis court. There is one in
>Mission Park, right by where we live. I am glad to hear that the rope isn't
>warping him. It's just that last time we were at Manito park, there was a guy playing
>fetch with his black lab right by the parking lot. That dog was really
>something, he got his tennis ball, he brought it right back, he sat and
>looked at his man, and when the man threw the ball, the dog only went after
>it after getting the release signal.

I'm always in awe of that level of training. *S* It takes conscienscious repetition with a well laid out plan. But the basics of teaching it are:

Break it into it's tiniest pieces:
Sit. Stay. Wait for the cue to retrieve: go to the item, pick it up, bring it back, deliver it to hand. Sit and wait again.

Start in the living room with a sit where directed, stay til released, you go place the ball a few feet away (don't throw it), he must stay til you return, wait for you to give your "get it" cue, bring it directly (trade for a treat).

The rules of the game are:

"We cannot play until you sit"
"You cannot go get it until I give the word"
"You may not lean, wiggle, tense or I will not give the word"

The bottom line is that there are rules to the game and you only get to play if you follow the rules. It takes a lot of focus and working in the house, the backyard, the front yard, the park when there's no one there, few distractions, a few more distractions, etc etc. The LAST thing you add is actually throwing the ball. (The arm motion has become the cue - he can't follow that cue and stay at the same time.)

>I tried to have Max sit and watch for a
>minute but he was instantly sidetracked having noticed that his butt also
>has a LEFT SIDE, WOOO WOO, THE UNMITIGATED JOY!! I'm not complaining,
>though. Max's lunkheaded joie de vivre is one of his most endearing traits.

*LOL* You should write for a living.

>Also, I mentioned your finishing class suggestion to Nicole. We're thinking
>we're going to sign up sometime this spring or summer. Max really had a
>pretty good time in the other classes - and so did we for that matter.
>Anyway, thanks again for the suggestion about tying Max to something. That
>may be the missing piece. I'll let you know how we progress.

Good luck and let me know how it goes - if that doesn't work, we'll make a different plan! -Carol

I wish ALL of our students were as great as this one!

From Kim: "I am STILL laughing my butt off!!! Sides hurt and tears are rolling down my face!! This guy is GREAT!! They definitely are Lab people!! I love it!"

They were a real treat to have in class - super students and SO much fun. <the No Treat signal, "Well, Bob, looks like you're back in line to ring the door bell and come in again."> It tickled me to no end that they "get" the whole philosophy - even the no reward marker ... and can apply what they learned to their spastic friends. WONderful! <I tried to have Max sit and watch for a minute but he was instantly sidetracked having noticed that his butt also has a LEFT SIDE> Is that a Lab or what? *ROFL* <WOOO WOO, THE UNMITIGATED JOY!! I'm not complaining, though. Max's lunkheaded joie de vivre> Any man who can SPELL joie de vivre is my kinda man! <is one of his most endearing traits.>